Question of Etiquette?
I just got back from visiting the bf in the great white north. Mostly, I love our neighbors in the great white north.
However, boohiss on the parka wearin', car plugging, celsius scale usin' people when they beat my team! The Wings fell to the Oilers and then, as if that wasn't enough, the bf's friends and relatives ragged on me about it. Ooooh, I am holding out for the playoffs - then lets see who has bragging rights.
We went to the game referred to in the above paragraph. Yes, I was there to witness the Wings piss it away in the third period. It was a good game (I will admit that like a mature person) but I was still a little peeved my guys didn't bring it home at the end. Particularly since the other team has a sieve in goal!
While I was there, we also went to dinner a few times, hung with his fam (which didn't suck - always a good thing), and went to see Harry Potter 4.
So, about HP... they should have just sucked it up, put an intermission in it and made it 4 hours long. I know the theaters would hate it and some children couldn't manage but TOO BAD! I was disappointed in the rather choppy final product. It was clear that there was more story filmed that subsequently ended up on the cutting room floor. I guess I am entertaining the hope that the DVD will be HUGELY extended. I enjoyed the film but it is clear that there is just no way to pack the later novels into 2+ hours (each) anymore. Oh well. Still, the HP movies are a guilty pleasure that I am sure to enjoy again.
About the fam, and here I tread on dangerous ground, I enjoyed my time there but one person makes me particularly irritated. Let's call her old sister-in-law (osil). Osil is compulsive. She is compulsive about her kids and about cleaning. I find both fairly annoying. One, the kids are allowed no freedoms. Now, don't misunderstand me, I think kids need to have rules and boundries. However, robotic actions are not a quality I seek to cultivate in any offspring I might someday rear. Apparently, her priorities are different. But, that is not the focus of my rant this evening.
My focus is on post-dining host/guest etiquette. Let's set the scene... a family group of approximately a dozen (mostly adults) are gathered to eat a meal. The hosts are young brother and young sister-in-law (yb&ysil). After eating, I help osil and ysil clear the plates from the meal (this only entails stacking of plates/serving stuff/utensils on the counter by the dish washer). At this point the ysil leaves to attend to a child. The men retire to another room to "chat". What is proper etiquette? I chose to join the men in conversation with the intention of returning to the kitchen when/if ysil returned. I wanted to extend an offer to help cleanup if she desired any aid.
I would like to digress for a moment... I am very particular about "my" kitchen. I do not particularly like when people try to help. They inevitably do one of three things to really drive me batty. One - they "wash" dishes by hand that are not dishwasher appropriate but do so poorly requiring me to rewash them later (and it is always an unwelcome surprise when I go to put stuff away and find it is still nasty with food crusties). Two - they put stuff away but in the wrong place. Or three - they load the dishwasher in a manner I find to be completely uneconomical or just plain wrong (safe for top shelf only means it can't go on the bottom rack dumbass).
Okay, back to the scene. At some point, mere minutes later, I find the osil cleaning up in the kitchen. No ysil. Um, so here is my question... is it rude to assume your host wants your help, and by extrapolation, to proceed without asking? This woman has also been known to come over to the bf's and to start cleaning without asking, just assuming that he appreciates the help. (He does appreciate the help and sometimes probably needs it but I think that is another matter altogether).
Maybe it is just my little hangup about personal space. The kitchen is part of my personal space and unless I have invited you to join me or accepted an offer of help - go sit the fuck down. If I am hosting, I understand that with that comes the clean up. I wouldn't offer if I couldn't handle the result. Plus, does kitchen size matter? The bf and I have trouble preparing a meal together because the kitchen is so small... but the ysil has a big kitchen leaving plenty of space for two (or even three) people to do clean up at the same time. I just think it is tacky and/or rude.
Anyone want to weigh in on this one? Should I have just started helping the osil? What do I do if she tries to pull this crap on me? Keep my mouth shut (and consequently most likely end up mostly watching her clean due to the space issue) or politely tell her to get the hell out of my kitchen?
Comment to my travel curse: In effect but not to full strength. My flight up to Ca was delayed as the plane was routed to the wrong gate, in the wrong concourse, in the wrong terminal! Sigh. You know those gated steps that lead to the tarmac that read "authorized personnel only"? Well, you are authorized if you have to take a specialized shuttle to your new terminal because the people in charge of getting gate info to pilots are idiots. Things you learn when you fly... And, or course, the flight was packed. The way back was fairly uneventful. Oh, but the public transportation management has it's head up it's ass. Apparently, if the train arrives at the station at 12:12, the connecting bus ought to leave at 12:13 so that no one can possibly make the transfer (even if they run!). Nice. Oh, and have the bus on a 40 minute loop. Ooooh, and don't construct seats for people waiting for buses. Forget about those nice, cozy warming lamps too.
However, boohiss on the parka wearin', car plugging, celsius scale usin' people when they beat my team! The Wings fell to the Oilers and then, as if that wasn't enough, the bf's friends and relatives ragged on me about it. Ooooh, I am holding out for the playoffs - then lets see who has bragging rights.
We went to the game referred to in the above paragraph. Yes, I was there to witness the Wings piss it away in the third period. It was a good game (I will admit that like a mature person) but I was still a little peeved my guys didn't bring it home at the end. Particularly since the other team has a sieve in goal!
While I was there, we also went to dinner a few times, hung with his fam (which didn't suck - always a good thing), and went to see Harry Potter 4.
So, about HP... they should have just sucked it up, put an intermission in it and made it 4 hours long. I know the theaters would hate it and some children couldn't manage but TOO BAD! I was disappointed in the rather choppy final product. It was clear that there was more story filmed that subsequently ended up on the cutting room floor. I guess I am entertaining the hope that the DVD will be HUGELY extended. I enjoyed the film but it is clear that there is just no way to pack the later novels into 2+ hours (each) anymore. Oh well. Still, the HP movies are a guilty pleasure that I am sure to enjoy again.
About the fam, and here I tread on dangerous ground, I enjoyed my time there but one person makes me particularly irritated. Let's call her old sister-in-law (osil). Osil is compulsive. She is compulsive about her kids and about cleaning. I find both fairly annoying. One, the kids are allowed no freedoms. Now, don't misunderstand me, I think kids need to have rules and boundries. However, robotic actions are not a quality I seek to cultivate in any offspring I might someday rear. Apparently, her priorities are different. But, that is not the focus of my rant this evening.
My focus is on post-dining host/guest etiquette. Let's set the scene... a family group of approximately a dozen (mostly adults) are gathered to eat a meal. The hosts are young brother and young sister-in-law (yb&ysil). After eating, I help osil and ysil clear the plates from the meal (this only entails stacking of plates/serving stuff/utensils on the counter by the dish washer). At this point the ysil leaves to attend to a child. The men retire to another room to "chat". What is proper etiquette? I chose to join the men in conversation with the intention of returning to the kitchen when/if ysil returned. I wanted to extend an offer to help cleanup if she desired any aid.
I would like to digress for a moment... I am very particular about "my" kitchen. I do not particularly like when people try to help. They inevitably do one of three things to really drive me batty. One - they "wash" dishes by hand that are not dishwasher appropriate but do so poorly requiring me to rewash them later (and it is always an unwelcome surprise when I go to put stuff away and find it is still nasty with food crusties). Two - they put stuff away but in the wrong place. Or three - they load the dishwasher in a manner I find to be completely uneconomical or just plain wrong (safe for top shelf only means it can't go on the bottom rack dumbass).
Okay, back to the scene. At some point, mere minutes later, I find the osil cleaning up in the kitchen. No ysil. Um, so here is my question... is it rude to assume your host wants your help, and by extrapolation, to proceed without asking? This woman has also been known to come over to the bf's and to start cleaning without asking, just assuming that he appreciates the help. (He does appreciate the help and sometimes probably needs it but I think that is another matter altogether).
Maybe it is just my little hangup about personal space. The kitchen is part of my personal space and unless I have invited you to join me or accepted an offer of help - go sit the fuck down. If I am hosting, I understand that with that comes the clean up. I wouldn't offer if I couldn't handle the result. Plus, does kitchen size matter? The bf and I have trouble preparing a meal together because the kitchen is so small... but the ysil has a big kitchen leaving plenty of space for two (or even three) people to do clean up at the same time. I just think it is tacky and/or rude.
Anyone want to weigh in on this one? Should I have just started helping the osil? What do I do if she tries to pull this crap on me? Keep my mouth shut (and consequently most likely end up mostly watching her clean due to the space issue) or politely tell her to get the hell out of my kitchen?
Comment to my travel curse: In effect but not to full strength. My flight up to Ca was delayed as the plane was routed to the wrong gate, in the wrong concourse, in the wrong terminal! Sigh. You know those gated steps that lead to the tarmac that read "authorized personnel only"? Well, you are authorized if you have to take a specialized shuttle to your new terminal because the people in charge of getting gate info to pilots are idiots. Things you learn when you fly... And, or course, the flight was packed. The way back was fairly uneventful. Oh, but the public transportation management has it's head up it's ass. Apparently, if the train arrives at the station at 12:12, the connecting bus ought to leave at 12:13 so that no one can possibly make the transfer (even if they run!). Nice. Oh, and have the bus on a 40 minute loop. Ooooh, and don't construct seats for people waiting for buses. Forget about those nice, cozy warming lamps too.
5 Comments:
Welcome back!
It is the height of rude to not go into the kitchen to lend a hand with a big cleanup. It was lovely of osil to offer to hostess the event and it is unfair to saddle her with both the prep and the post event work. If the kitchen is large and she doesn't want you in it, she will say so. She would be able to join the 'chat' that much more quickly with help.
I have no problem with you throwing her out of your kitchen or removing dust cloths and mops from her OCD little hands when she is at your place. You obviously feel very differently about your kitchen space.
By
Anonymous, at 3:27 AM
The thing is, Osil didn't host, Ysil did and then left the kitchen area. I say with dishes stacked, its fine to leave. I feel uncomfortable in someone elses kitchen without the owner there to at least advise on what she wants done with the dishes, etc. If Osil wanted to keep cleaning, that's her issue, but I think going the other route was equally acceptable. And if you don't want help at your functions, just politely decline any offers for assistance.
By
Anonymous, at 10:47 AM
Anon #1: Yes, I totally agree... if osil was hosting and then doing post cleaning I would TOTALLY help (if she wanted). Just as I was planning to help ysil when she returned (again, assuming more aid was, in fact, helpful). It was more a question about helping when the owner isn't there and/or hasn't accepted an offer of help...
I will admit that I am sometimes a selfish be-ach but my mom taught me manners. I would never let the host or hostess do all the work without giving my strongest offer to help (before, during and after whatever event).
It actually makes me feel uncomfortable to sit around while other people work. I could never have a "staff" of any sort at home. Ooooh, another blog topic perhaps?
By
chemgoddess, at 2:49 PM
Where I am from the deal is this -- not that everyone adheres, but they ought:
To hold a dinner is to give a gift. When one gives a gift, one does not ask the receiver to help pay for it. When one receives a gift, one does not help to pay for it.
So, if I host a dinner, or a party, or brunch etc, no matter how large or small, and regardless of whether I have a dishwasher or not, I do NOT expect my guests to help clean up. If I prefer to enjoy their company than wash up immediately, I do not want my *guests* to spoil their evening by cleaning up for me.
It is, however, not nice to appear 'entitled' so guests do usually offer to help out (though I notice the offers are dreadfully gendered).
Anyway it goes like this:
Guest: "That was lovely. May I help clean up?"
Host: "No, absolutely not, but thanks for the offer."
Then one ends with something like
"The dishwasher is my helper" or "I will do the tidy-up later."
And guests are supposed to respect that.
And any host who expects guests to wash up after themselves should stop hosting gatherings. Either give generously, or don't bother.
Any guest who can't be a good guest should stay home. It's rude, invasive and judgmental (whether conscious or not) to decide that the kitchen needs cleaning *right now* when the host has decided it can wait.
By
Anonymous, at 5:00 PM
Ooh! You're back to blogging! Glad there were no flight problems this time around.
I am even willing to let you COOK when you get here, in addition to any clean up you choose to assume:)
I think a maid would be a huge treat if you were both working full-time with or without kids. I guess I missed that part of your education. We'll talk.
I think osil probably has a lot of experience with ysil, so maybe she felt comfortable 'taking over' in the kitchen so ysil could do mommy duty. It could also have a lot to do with her being something of a control freak. What did Dan think?
By
Anonymous, at 2:17 AM
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